Gender Stereotypes in the Sims 2

[0123456789]

I find that the Sims 2 takes a typical approach to gender roles, like so many other games. But the gender roles may be more subtle and less pronounced. Still, there are some gender stereotypes in the Sims 2 game, namely the social worker and the therapist. Although American social workers and therapists indeed are predominately female and male, respectively, assuming that therapists mean "psychiatrists", there are actually male social workers and female psychiatrists. They just occur more infrequently, but not as 100% as the game makes it to be. I don't think Sims 2 social workers and the therapist are editable either, because they are NPCs that can't be modified.

[WistfulRose]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Nanny, who is always an elder female.
I never really thought about it, but it makes sense that there's these sort of stereotypes. They're prevalent in the world, and the sims is just a reflection of the real world.

[0123456789]

I'm surprised you didn't mention the Nanny, who is always an elder female.
I never really thought about it, but it makes sense that there's these sort of stereotypes. They're prevalent in the world, and the sims is just a reflection of the real world.

Some people are particularly sensitive to gender stereotypes. If I had mentioned the nanny, then SOMEONE would suggest a mod that allows playables to become nannies. And there is such a thing called the all-in-one nanny mod, which basically allows a playable sim, male or female, to do nanny functions autonomously. Therapists and social workers, on the other hand, are less malleable.

[Heather]

Some people are particularly sensitive to gender stereotypes. If I had mentioned the nanny, then SOMEONE would suggest a mod that allows playables to become nannies. And there is such a thing called the all-in-one nanny mod, which basically allows a playable sim, male or female, to do nanny functions autonomously. Therapists and social workers, on the other hand, are less malleable.

That's wouldn't change the fact that the game is programmed to only generate elder females as nannies, much like the fact the game refers to same-sex marriage as a joined union, rather than just marriage. There are mods to change that, yes, but it doesn't change the fact that game's original programming does not allow for it.

Basically what I'm saying is it's totally cool to point out the problem with nannies, too.

[Chase]

I agree! But I also question the significance of this, because this game is now obsolete and has been replaced, twice. The fact that it's an old game doesn't excuse this, but I believe that the fact that the two newer renditions of this same game don't contain these sorts of things does

[WistfulRose]

Exactly. Sims 2 was made over ten years ago, and views have changed since then.

[Heather]

Views haven't changed that much though; people in 2004 would still be against one type of job only being for a certain gender.

The views on same-sex marriage in the US have definitely changed, but I only brought that up as an example of something that could be easily modded out, but doesn't change the fact that the game's original programming didn't allow for it.

[WistfulRose]

Very true. Of course, there is still some of the job issues. A women still makes less money than a man with the exact same job.

[0123456789]

The gender pay equality is debateable. Some people argue that the salaries of men and women are still unequal. The real issue is complicated.

[WistfulRose]

True, and it might not be all across the board, but I have heard of specific examples that support that pay isn't equal. But I have to admit that I can't vouch for the source, so I could be wrong.

[MichelleCYoung]

The Repo Men are all men, too.

I have never had an Apartment Life game generate a male High Warlock. Only witches.

And yet, even with The Sims (original), same-sex relationships was always a thing, so there's that.

Sims 2 introduced male maids. And police and fire-fighters are also balanced male-female.

Only female cheerleaders and male llama mascots, though, as far as I can tell. But cow mascots come in both genders.

It's all binary, as well. I don't know what iteration of Sims might be required to get some inter-sex or trans thing going.

Still, there's definitely progress. And no playable sim is blocked from any career, or any stay-at-home path, by their gender.

Sim pay is always equal, too. Well, for "human" sims. Cats get paid more than dogs, but that's justified as being because cats take longer to train than dogs. And male and female dogs or cats get paid the same, regardless of gender.

Now, when it comes to pregnancy and "maternity" leave, the game gives it all to the sim who gave birth. There is a mod that allows you to choose which parent will get the time off, which is nice. In game, though, it's all about who gave birth, so a man can only get the time off for an alien baby.

And female sims can't get alien babies, without a mod. It seems to me the aliens doing their "space probes" would impregnate a female just as much as a male.

[0123456789]

Actually, the Sims 2 does generate male witches (known as warlocks). I had that once in-game. He was the Atrociously Evil Warlock or something. It does happen, but it is not frequent. The pre-made ApartmentLife witches are all female, not male. So, you probably need clean templates to regenerate witches and check out yourself.

[MichelleCYoung]

Really? I'm glad to see it does happen, sometimes.

[Scribal_Goddess]

Tangenting here, but I notice that a lot of the original TS2 playables and their stories have a certain amount of gender bias. For example, the Pleasants are set up so that Kaylynn "Homewrecker" Langarak is implied to be more responsible for Daniel's cheating than Daniel is, and Mary Sue's commitment to her job is supposedly a bad thing. Dina Caliente is set up as a gold-digger, where Don Lothario, who is set up with Cassandra Goth and therefore also in line for the Goth fortune, is not.

(Hey, can anyone point me to that playables as nannies hack? I'm going to need it when I start my BACC...)

[Chase]

I disagree. I think Daniel and Don are both clearly portrayed as total sleazebags, while Mary Sue is clearly a strong modern woman. Dina Caliente is a gold digger, and so is Don (he is even grosser). Gold digging, anyway, is not a gender-specific engagement, as is clear in the simple existence of Grindr and Tinder, and probably a few Lifetime movies or something.

I really don't think there's anything to complain about regarding gender in TS2; it is a much more effective use of time focusing on gender problems in real life. Women still make a significant amount less than men for the same work. Old men are constantly debating on whether a woman has the right to proper healthcare. Transgenders, especially women face disgusting levels of intolerance, discrimination, and abuse. Meanwhile, in an 11-year old game, the nanny is an old woman... I don't think there is any point whatsoever talking about this in the present tense, and it's also pointless talking about it in the past tense, as this game is obsolete and has been replaced, twice.

[Abby]

I agree with you there Chase. I think, like with most opinions in life (in this case, sexist biases) you can look at an example (in this case, sims 2) and really pick it apart if you want to. Sure, the social worker is a woman and the psychiatrist is a man - but if it could only be one set 'NPC' in the game and they had to pick only one gender, why not pick the one thats the most common and most people could relate to? Is society really that insecure that we need to make sure that sims in a game are both genders? Does it really matter? Is it really a bad thing to stick with the most common thing? Yes there are male social workers and yes there are female psychiatrists, by putting a male psychiatrist in the game they are in no way saying women cant be a psychiatrist too. I am a female, who studied psychology and looking to take a career into psychology and in no way does it offend me. Sure they could have done it that its random gender but with something as minor asit is in the game, i can see why it wasnt worth generating lots of versions, and they probably didnt think it would be a problem. (Which it hasnt really, this thread is the first thing ive ever seen about it since the game release). Hey, it may be generalistic but i dont think its meant in any bad way. If all games in the world were changed so everything was fair and everything was the same and equal then the world would be a very complicated place. As for the storylines, i dont think theres any
gender bias there atall... Just peoples different opinions and attitudes towards the situation changing their perception.

Theres my two pence to the little debate going on haha. Just my opinion, in no way slating anyone elses. <333 (p.s can you tell i studied stereotypes and the psychology behind them, and what causes them in my psychology course haha)

[Scribal_Goddess]

Chase - I'm looking at it from a storytelling perspective, as in "what stories the pre-arranged gameplay is set up with." Where people go from there, or what they think of the individual sims, obviously gets influenced by their own gameplay decisions and what they liked about other people's gameplay and posted stories. And many of these characters had their stories continued in the sims 3, which is hardly obsolete.

I do agree with you that Daniel Pleasant is set up as a total cad, (and that the gameplay has set Don up as pretty sleazy,) but when it comes down to sim and household bios, the Calientes are implicitly shamed for Dina's interest in Mortimer, which is sort of reinforcing the "gold digger" stereotype. The point I was trying to make around my own words in the post before though, was that there seem to be a few sex-based assumptions in which characters were assigned which roles in the Pleasantview soap opera. The gold digger character was assigned to a female sim, the unrepentant cad with a string of lovers was male, etc. (Not that this is a terrible thing in playing the sims, but it shows that people just get used to associating these roles with members of a specific gender. If I knew more about the pre-made storylines in TS3, it might be interesting to see whether the people in charge of them ever grew aware of this or cast male sims in stereotypically female roles or vice versa.)

[MichelleCYoung]

I do think that the NPCs are pretty well balanced, though. I mean, even though all Repo-Men are men, and all social workers are women, the game designers have done a pretty good job at making sure that there is a fairly even split between male and female NPCs.

This, in my mind, is a vast improvement on the "good old days," when men were men, and women were wives, nurses, schoolteachers and secretaries. The choices were so darned limited! There would be no way that this game, had it been created in the 50's, could have maintained that 50/50 gender split with the NPC roles.

So, yeah, we still have a long way to go, yet I can be happy for all the way we have come.

As for the pre-made sims and their stories, well I think they took the easy road with a lot of stereotypes, sure. Look at Veronaville. Nothing there takes you by surprise. But then again, once you start playing them, if you bother playing the pre-mades, at all, the stories go in whatever direction you want. It's easy enough to flip the script on them, if you want to.

[Olive Specter]

I agree, although other than NPCs, I think you get a lot of freedom in deciding what your Sims' lives are going to be like and mods always add a lot of options. I think that TS3 is better about gender roles and NPCs, because for example, when you call for a nanny/babysitter, it's always a teenager and they can be male or female. Same thing with the firemen and police. I don't know if there is a therapist in TS3 and I don't think I've ever gotten social workers enough times in that game (since I always get those pop up warnings first and repeatedly) so I don't know about those.

[MichelleCYoung]

There's a great mod that allows the 3-days post-baby birth to whichever parent needs it, so you can have "paternity" leave, even if the mother gave birth, or vice-versa, for alien babies. I LOVE that mod!