The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 10th, 2014, 8:29 am

The traditional Legacy Challenge is that a Sim starts on a 5x5 lot, or goes to college and starts that (some people seem to go this route, as that will allow them to have more money from the get-go when they move to the official legacy lot), or starts on a smaller lot (due to computer capabilities) but decreases the funds to mimic the small money leftover from buying such a huge estate.

However, it seems that in recent times, people just move in single sims into ready-made houses and call that a "legacy challenge", even though part of the point of the legacy is to build from the ground up. Not only that, other individuals are making "legacy houses", offering up for download, as if the legacy families can move or start with a pre-made house. I have a sense that these people think the legacy challenge is basically playing one family for long periods of time or any family that lasts for 10 generations, without reading the original rules of the challenge.

In any case, in my idiolect, I have a stricter definition of the "legacy challenge". I would only call a single sim living on a 5x5 lot (or a smaller lot but decreases the starting amount to match the same amount as one who starts on a 5x5 lot, or a 5x6 lot if one is doing the Xtreme handicap) and going on 10 generations without using non-building cheats or mods that might give one the upper hand as a legacy challenge. All others may be "legacy-lite" or "not a legacy at all".
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Keika » December 10th, 2014, 8:56 am

You know, I haven't actually read a legacy that started with a pre-built house. They might skip the "this is the empty lot right before I build on it" picture, and I did see one legacy that started with a little more funding than the rules state she should have, but they never fund their sims millions of dollars from the beginning. Legacy houses are usually put up for download for people who are either not playing a legacy and want to use the same house (these houses are usually good ones, built to last a long time, with rooms for multiple generations to live at once and space for career rewards and such), or for legacy players who don't like to build and need a better house than their little shack, now that their sims have enough money for a bigger home.

Generally, I don't think that how the legacy starts is really the point of the challenge. As I understand it, Pinstar created the challenge when he noticed that portraits painted in-game go up in value over time, and wanted to see how valuable a portrait could become. The goal of a legacy is to reach the tenth generation from a single founder, not to build a million dollars in household funds. That's a different challenge. Typically any single legacy family will have accrued a sizeable fortune by the second or third generation, which pretty much negates whether or not the player started with a pre-built house or not. That's why so many legacies die in the second or early third generation; once the family is no longer scraping the bottom of the barrel for grocery money, there's no real challenge anymore.

I say that if someone wants to start with a pre-built house because they hate building, let them. It's their game, they can do what they want, and not even Pinstar is going to come after them for it. In my idiolect, a legacy is "a challenge in which someone plays ten generations of a single family," not "a family that starts with humble beginnings."
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 10th, 2014, 9:07 am

I say that if someone wants to start with a pre-built house because they hate building, let them. It's their game, they can do what they want, and not even Pinstar is going to come after them for it. In my idiolect, a legacy is "a challenge in which someone plays ten generations of a single family," not "a family that starts with humble beginnings."


In my modified idiolect, I'd say that a legacy challenge is "a challenge in which someone plays ten generations of a single family AND that starts with humble beginnings". People can call their games whatever they want, but if they don't fit my definition, I won't recognize them as legacy players, at least privately.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Keika » December 10th, 2014, 12:16 pm

In essence, I agree with your latest post, including your modified definition. Two of the major expectations of a challenge that's been labeled as a "legacy" are indeed that 1) it begins humbly and 2) it has a goal of reaching ten generations. Beyond that, there doesn't tend to be a lot that one legacy has in common with another. Everyone plays their game in their own way: themes, which set of rules to follow, how heirs and spares are chosen, whether it's plotted or observational, etc.

However, in the end, it's not really up to me or you to decide who is playing a "legacy" and who isn't. I have a feeling we're not going to totally agree on this, but I personally believe it's up to the player, not the internet, on what someone calls themselves or their game. There are a few more expectations when it comes to actually publishing your work as a "legacy," and some of those expectations should be respected so as not to mislead the reader. However, this isn't really something we should get up in arms about, get what I'm saying? :)
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 10th, 2014, 1:31 pm

Keika wrote:In essence, I agree with your latest post, including your modified definition. Two of the major expectations of a challenge that's been labeled as a "legacy" are indeed that 1) it begins humbly and 2) it has a goal of reaching ten generations. Beyond that, there doesn't tend to be a lot that one legacy has in common with another. Everyone plays their game in their own way: themes, which set of rules to follow, how heirs and spares are chosen, whether it's plotted or observational, etc.

However, in the end, it's not really up to me or you to decide who is playing a "legacy" and who isn't. I have a feeling we're not going to totally agree on this, but I personally believe it's up to the player, not the internet, on what someone calls themselves or their game. There are a few more expectations when it comes to actually publishing your work as a "legacy," and some of those expectations should be respected so as not to mislead the reader. However, this isn't really something we should get up in arms about, get what I'm saying? :)


That's what I said. Please reread my former post. Like I said before, I don't care what other people call their games. But if someone publishes a story about a family and calls it a legacy challenge, then I will not say something like, "oh, cool legacy challenge!" No, I still wouldn't see it as a legacy challenge, just because someone says so, and I may say something like "oh, cool story!" and treat the story as a non-legacy story.

I don't think people would care anyway, because getting any kind of positive comment is usually nice.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby WistfulRose » December 11th, 2014, 3:01 pm

I think what's going on here is that there are really two definitions of a legacy. There's the typical challenge that you mentioned with the lot and ten generations, and then there's the, I just want my family to get through ten generations. The Legacy challenge has turned into more of a lax sort of thing. There's the typical route and expectations that everyone seems to follow, but it is all up to each person's interpretation. What I mean is that some people follow the rules to the letter, while others follow the sense of the challenge, rather than the rules.

To me, when I call my challenge a legacy, I'm playing the same family with the goal of reaching the tenth generation. That's about it. I don't use cheats, (except for building and bug fixing) and I play some of the things that were from the original challenge, but since I don't score, it's not perfect.

I feel like I droned on for no reason, but what I really mean is that the legacy is really just the, 'let's have fun with our sims' most of the time. There are some who follow strict rules, and some don't. But do we have the right to say that one is a legacy and one is not?
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 12th, 2014, 11:20 am

WistfulRose wrote:I feel like I droned on for no reason, but what I really mean is that the legacy is really just the, 'let's have fun with our sims' most of the time. There are some who follow strict rules, and some don't. But do we have the right to say that one is a legacy and one is not?


I don't think this has anything to do human rights. If one plays a family with merely the intention of going ten generations and not doing anything else to show it's a legacy, then I won't be convinced that it's a legacy. I won't argue against it, but calling it a legacy is not in my vocabulary. I can't control what other people call their games, just what I call mine. And I use terminology because I perceive them to be standard use that many people understand. If we keep using our own terminology for things, our definitions will just broader, and we might as well say anything is a legacy challenge.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby WistfulRose » December 12th, 2014, 2:25 pm

To me, anyone going ten generations is a legacy challenge, if they choose to call it that. I don't see what the big deal is with specifics. A legacy is a legacy. You know it when you see it.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Teresa » December 12th, 2014, 3:08 pm

I agree Rose. Since this isn't a competition, people don't have to follow the rules exactly. They can adjust the challenge to accommodate their play-style as long as they follow the spirit of the challenge - no cheating and a single family tree for 10 generations.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 12th, 2014, 5:11 pm

WistfulRose wrote:To me, anyone going ten generations is a legacy challenge, if they choose to call it that. I don't see what the big deal is with specifics. A legacy is a legacy. You know it when you see it.


I don't care what other people call their games. But I'd still recognize their game as not a legacy. They may say that it's a legacy, but I'd just refrain quietly from using the word legacy. It's not like people would bop you on the head for using the incorrect term.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby WistfulRose » December 12th, 2014, 8:27 pm

I don't think we're getting anywhere with this.

Do you have examples of legacys that you don't' feel are really legacys? Maybe then we'll understand what you are trying to say.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Teresa » December 12th, 2014, 8:31 pm

Yeah this thread has lost forward motion. A legacy is what the player wants it to be, no matter what anyone else thinks. Unless there is something else that adds to the conversation, let's move on, please.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 12th, 2014, 10:38 pm

WistfulRose wrote:I don't think we're getting anywhere with this.

Do you have examples of legacys that you don't' feel are really legacys? Maybe then we'll understand what you are trying to say.


My point is not to say what is or what is not a Legacy Challenge. My point is to say that I have a specific vocabulary.

If you respect other people's wish to play how they want, why can't you respect my wish to use my own vocabulary? All I want is to go by my vocabulary. That's it. If I see something that doesn't look like a Legacy Challenge to me, then I won't use the word "Legacy Challenge". That's it. End of story. It's not to say that person is playing a Legacy Challenge. That person may be playing a Legacy Challenge (or not), but I do not recognize it as such.

But then, this thread is getting a little bit out of hand. I didn't mean to be so argumentative here, but the people here keep thinking that I want to argue against the concept of the Legacy Challenge. Really, I DON'T WANT to argue at all. Aye! I should have never made this thread in the first place, but then people have all sorts of misunderstandings.

As for examples, I know one textbook case. I am going to give the username, though. Basically, the user has started a "Legacy Challenge", but she (I am fairly certain it's female) uses a pre-made house on something less than a 5x5 lot. She doesn't really deduct simoleons either. Now, she's on the tenth-something generation, and she wants to go on further. Her "Legacy" family also has more than 500,000 simoleons in the family funds. Although she could have reached that amount by the traditional Legacy route, it just doesn't FEEL like a Legacy Challenge. I don't want to give you the wrong impression, but I was one of her earlier fans and accepted her so-called "Legacy Challenge" regardless, even though I deeply felt it was not a Legacy Challenge. I sort of pointed this out to her, and she seemed to admit that she was not technically playing by the rules of the Legacy Challenge. So, she's just using the name as a Legacy-derivative Challenge. See what I mean?

That said, I feel more at ease when I say "Legacy-derivative Challenge" than "Legacy Challenge". THAT just makes more sense to me, when applied to her one-family gameplay. Of course, she's probably not going to use the term and would probably shorten it to "Legacy Challenge". Whatever.

Put it another way. If I were playing the Apocalypse Challenge with historical custom content but I don't tell anyone that it's an Apocalypse challenge, then people would label my challenge however they see fit. I have no problem with that. Everyone has the right to define their world or describe what makes sense to them. If they don't think what I'm doing is Apocalypse, then, well, that just means my challenge may not fit their idea of an Apocalypse, or it may mean that my challenge really is not Apocalypse but I just like to call it that.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Teresa » December 13th, 2014, 6:21 am

I think you definitely made your point how you feel about others using the term legacy. At no point, did anyone tell you that your definition was wrong, only why they had a different opinion.

But I do think this horse has been beaten enough, so let's put it out to pasture.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby 0123456789 » December 13th, 2014, 9:40 am

Teresa wrote:I think you definitely made your point how you feel about others using the term legacy. At no point, did anyone tell you that your definition was wrong, only why they had a different opinion.

But I do think this horse has been beaten enough, so let's put it out to pasture.


You are still assuming that we have different opinions. I don't think it's that different.

Basically, some people above just say that they don't mind what other people call their legacies. I don't have a problem what people call their legacies in their own personal games, but in my own language, I don't use the term "legacy" to describe their games. This has nothing to do with not objectively calling another person's game a legacy challenge. Rather, it's a subjective opinion on a person's legacy challenge.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby WistfulRose » December 13th, 2014, 4:57 pm

Honestly, this isn't going anywhere, there just isn't any reason to continue on this.
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Re: The Meaning of "Legacy Challenge"

Postby Teresa » December 13th, 2014, 6:33 pm

No there isn't. I am locking it.
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